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Initial post today by odinthor
There is an apparently hidden synonym here of 'Florida Rose'; but a rose known as the 'Florida Cottager' was a different rose: Gainesville Nurseries catalog of 1906, p. 6, lists 'Florida Cottager' ("Well known and common throughout the South; a constant bloomer; color bright red") separately from 'Louis Philippe' ("A strong grower and another favorite; the color is a dark, rich velvet, with lighter shadings to center").
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Reply #1 of 2 posted today by scvirginia
Is this perhaps a situation akin to the Florida cracker roses where people in different regions of Florida gave various China Roses that performed well in their areas the same nickname?
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Reply #2 of 2 posted today by odinthor
It's looking like that's the case!
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Initial post today by odinthor
Apparently Mr. Jones was responsible for breeding all of the roses mentioned in the following (with Dingee & Conard as their introducer):

“Long ago it was known that different varieties would hybridize or mix with each other, that is that the pollen would mix producing seed, that might under some circumstances produce varieties in which some qualities of both the parents, so to speak, might be blended or represented together in the new variety, and knowing this it occurred to a skillful hybridizer in this country, one who had made it almost a life business, that if he could combine the best qualities of the choicest varieties now in existence, he might secure something far better and more valuable, than any of the parents, and this is just what he has tried to do. He selected some of the best types of Roses for parents, and after years of patient study succeeded in hybridizing them under conditions that precluded the possibility of other mixture, and from this seed these new varieties have been produced. It is an exceedingly interesting illustration of what skillful hybridization can do, and no doubt the Roses will be watched with much interest. The names of these Pedigree Roses are, ‘Henry M. Stanley’, ‘Pearl Rivers’, ‘Mrs. Jesse Fremont’, ‘Maud Little’, and ‘Golden Gate’. The Stanley was named in honor of the great African explorer, and was raised from ‘Madame Lambert’ and ‘Comtesse Riza du Parc’; it is clear pink in color, and very beautiful. The ‘Pearl Rivers’ is raised from those two noble Roses, ‘Devoniensis’ and ‘Madame de Watteville’, color ivory white. ‘Mrs. Jesse Fremont’ is a seedling from ‘Duchess de Brabant’. ’Maud Little' is raised from ‘Pierre St. Cyr’ and ‘Duchess de Brabant’, and has a particularly lustrous bloom. ‘Golden Gate’ comes from ‘Safrano’ and ‘Cornelia Cook’, and is one of the most distinct and unique Roses recently introduced; altogether they are a charming addition to our list of New Roses, and will no doubt be largely sought after. It is certainly time that more attention was given in this country to the production of new and valuable varieties of Roses and other flowers and fruits, and though it is a matter requiring careful study and patient industry, it is believed that it will pay well if followed up with good judgment and skill, in fact a good many people are now doing quite a handsome business in introducing new varieties of various kinds, and there is undoubtedly room for a great many more.” [Success with Flowers, vol. 1, 1890, pp. 6–7]

The New Orleans connection is supported by the names 'Pearl Rivers', journalist of the New Orleans Picayune, and poet, and 'Maud Little', probably the daughter or wife of New Orleans florist R.N. Little (himself responsible for 'Winnie Davis'). Meantime, the magazine Success with Flowers was from Dingee & Conard, so they certainly speak authoritatively in the above comments.
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Reply #1 of 2 posted today by jedmar
References to the parentages addded. Regarding the breeder, the text only speaks of "He". We have Jones as a breeder of 'Golden Gate' based on a single reference from 1906.
The wikipedia entry on Star Roses and Plants / Conard Pyle mentions:
1867: Dingee & Conard began propagating roses under a new system introduced by Antoine Wintzer, the head nurseryman, and a world-class hybridiser. Conard conceived the idea of disposing of their rose stock through the mail. Their first catalog offered bedding plants, shrubbery, bulbs, seeds, and roses.
1888: Howard Preston sold his farm (a dairy farm and regional creamery) to S. Morris Jones, who continued to operate the creamery.
1892: Conard separated from Dingee and along with Antoine Wintzer joined with S. Morris Jones. The new company continued with the growing and distribution of roses and flowering plants. Much of the farmland acquired by Jones became part of Conard-Pyle, the house was eventually provided to the head nurseryman, Antoine Wintzer, as his residence.
1895: Antoine Wintzer worked on the improvement of the canna.
1897: The company's name became Conard & Jones Co.

No further information on S. Morris Jones. Wouldn't the breeder of Dinge & Conard be Antoine Wintzer = He?
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Reply #2 of 2 posted today by odinthor
S. Morris Jones was certainly a rose lover (see his presentation to the Pennsylvania State Horticultural Association published in "A List of Apples, Pears"; [etc.], 1889, p. 71); but I see no hint that he had rose-breeding aspirations. He was 'a business man of West Grove knowing Mr. Wintzer's great ability as a propagator, [who therefore] furnished him capital to organize the Conard & Jones Company" (from periodical Gardening, vol. 15, 1907, p. 137), of which he was Secretary and Treasurer.

As to Wintzer, though he was in charge of the nursery and rose-growing for Dingee & Conard, he seems to have restricted his own hybridization efforts to the Canna; I'd be interested in seeing anything about him rose-breeding.

Surely Dingee & Conard would have taken pride in referring to the "he" in their article (quoted above) as OUR hybridizer had such been the case; as it is, it appears to concern someone with whom they have commercial relations--that is, a breeder from whom they brought proprietary rights to his varieties which seemed to show promise--not an "in-house" worker. Why the Jones of 'Golden Gate' evidently did not want to publicize his name we cannot know; but if we accept Jones--whom I do not take to be businessman S. Morris Jones--as the breeder of 'Golden Gate', we also need to accept him as the breeder of the other roses mentioned in the article.

I should add that the reference to Jones, 'Golden Gate', and New Orleans comes from that most reliable source the Journal of the Royal Horticultural Society (vol. 27, 1903, p. 478).
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Initial post today by scvirginia
The earliest mentions I can find of this rose credit Parmentier as the breeder, and not until Otto's 1858 'Der Rosenzuchter' is Laffay credited with this rose.

Looking at the early references, I noticed that 'Jenny Lind' was usually listed with 'Lanei' and 'Nuits de Young'; both of these Mosses were 1845 introductions by Laffay. It seems probable to me that first the breeder was transposed, then the date. The introduction date Otto gives, 1851, is very likely when 'Jenny Lind' was introduced to German nurseries. The earliest reference I could find to the purported 1845 introduction isn't until 1882.

When I first found the 1849 Van Houtte reference crediting Parmentier, I wondered if Laffay had bought the rights from LVH, and introduced the rose to France. I thought I was seeing a not-unusual case where the introducer gets credit for being the breeder, but after reviewing all the references I could find, I doubt Laffay had anything to do with 'Jenny Lind', and that Parmentier deserves long-overdue credit for this rose.

If anyone has seen references that contradict or support this conclusion, I'd love to hear about it.
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Initial post today by Michael Garhart
huh interesting. Foliage, petal substance, and bloom color look similar to the two immature 'Winning Streak' I'm growing out. Wonder if they share a common parent or seedling parent.
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