Thanks Patricia, and thanks to everyone for your patience. The last number of comments I've made on roses in HMF have been slow to receive reactions. I wasn't prepared to hear back so soon! Patricia, I have not yet had time to do photos of the plant parts, and will do so in the Spring and post them here. Copperopolis does bloom with several buds is a cluster, each opening in succession so that it's display is prolonged. The color varies considerably in our climate, so I would not be surprised by Fred Boutin comparing two roses that are both perhaps so variable in coloring. In our garden it ranges from crimson, the sort of color we see in modern roses like Oklahoma, to a rich cool red, but pink in comparison to such dark reds. I have continued to study other possibilities including Baronne Hallez, another of the very double globular reds introduced into California in the mid 19th century. Hallez does not exhibit a pale reverse to the petals in Curtis' illustration. Copperopolis has been a willing grower, but not a large plant for me after three years of growing. Curtis says Hallez is 'very robust.' I don't put a lot of stock in size descriptions, but rather assume that until a foundling can be budded onto a suitable rootstock, we don't really know if it is vigorous or not. I'll be back with photos of Copperopolis' parts in the Spring. -Gregg