HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 15 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 14 MAY 19 by CybeRose
The Circleville Herald (Circleville, Ohio) p. 5 (26 Aug 1959)
Mrs. Fisher Top Rose Hybridizer

There are only two or three top flight women rose hybridizers in the whole world. Mrs. Gordon Fisher of Woburn, Mass., is one.

She developed one of the first true lavender roses, "Sterling Silver".

And because "Sterling Silver" has a bluish cast in its silver petals it is in the realm of possibility that this interesting, long-stemmed, fragrant lavender rose may be an ancestor to the first blue roses to come out of America.

Anyway Gladys Fisher is hoping for a blue rose. And each morning when she views flats of tiny seedlings she casts a quick glance over the whole lot for a blue rose.

Seedling roses bloom when only two or three inches high. And from these seedlings rosarians work to develop length of stem and texture or petals. The color of the rose seedling never changes.

MRS. FISHER is described as a vivacious, attractive little person, forever sought after as speaker at rose festivals and garden clubs. Both she and her husband, the late Gordon Fisher, were graduates of the University of New Hampshire. They were married in 1916. And for some 27 odd years Mrs. Fisher stuck to her "knitting" which happened to be the business of making a home and rearing the two Fisher children.

Just one week after her husband's death in 1943 the head rose hybridist at the Arnond-Fisher company, the wholesale florist organization which her husband had owned, left to enter the service.

And Mrs. Fisher decided to try her hand at the job. Timidly at first! During the first year she made only between 50 and 100 crosses.

She worked for five years before she developed her first patented rose, "Pandora," a creamy apricot with a heart of deeper apricot. Others are "Love Song", "Tapestry" and "Capri".

In 1946 Mrs. Fisher's first lavender, "Morning Mist" was developed. From "Morning Mist" a stronger rose, "Sterling Silver" was created.

Mrs. Fisher frankly admits that patience is one of the characteristics a rose hybridist needs. It is a tedious and exacting job. It also requires a formidable knowledge of the principles of heredity.

First Mrs. Fisher says she chooses a rose of good stock. A rose bud is selected, opened and the pollen popped into an envelope and carefully labeled.

In a few days when she is ready to make the cross she selects that parent rose, removes the petals, stamens and pollen. Then she rubs the pistil of this rose in the pollen from the envelope. When the pistil is throughly covered she ties a glassine bag over the cross to prevent further pollenization.

THE ROSE is tagged with complete information.

Later when Mrs. Fisher inspectes it, if the seed pod is green she knows the cross has taken. When the rose hip is the size of a walnut and orange in color the seeds are removed and planted in flats.

It takes some three months before the seedlings are an inch high. Even at this early date the selectivity starts.

Roses are self pollenizing so the hybridizer dares not wait for the rose to open but must make her cross while it is still in bud.

Mrs. Fisher may have started her work timidly but now her seedlings number up to 10,000 a year. So maybe she will reach her goal. Maybe she will be the one to develop the first American blue rose.

We say "American Blue Rose" because blue roses have been developed both in Japan and Germany.

It is interesting to note that Mrs. Paul Wood of Stoutsville during her stay inJapan in 1955 saw blue roses which had been grown in the Japanese Emperor's garden. And they were a true blue she says. She also saw brown and black roses in Japan.

Mrs. Fisher has another goal beside a blue rose. She's striving for a more perfect red rose. It will be a sort of memorial to her late husband whose favorite flower was the red rose.
Reply #1 of 2 posted 15 MAY 19 by Margaret Furness
Tapestry 1958 is also one of hers; well worth looking at.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 15 MAY by joys of life
Thanks, I enjoyed reading this. :)
most recent 17 DEC SHOW ALL
Initial post 20 SEP 11 by Kathy Strong
To be marketed by florists in the U.S. and Canada starting in November 2011. See,
Reply #1 of 6 posted 21 SEP 11 by Slugger15
100% blue pigmented petals, huh? I giggled a bit when I looked at the picture. Doesn't look any bluer to me than Neptune, Blue Girl, or Angel Face. They describe it as having a sweet smell, but methinks I smell something else going on.....
Reply #2 of 6 posted 23 FEB 14 by Michael Garhart
I am more impressed with Japan's other mauve roses, which tend to look very ghost-like and romantic, than I am with this rose. It looks so harsh and ... "eh."
Reply #3 of 6 posted 28 APR 17 by Plazbo
Personally I'd be interested to see what breeders could do with it, there's potential there to get far bluer than possible currently.

On the flip side though, given they know a large part of the issue is PH you'd think they'd do a bunch of testing to see if there are cultivars with a more appropriate PH and then either try the procedure again or cross with it rather than just leave it at a point that's already been achieved (or beaten). It's lack of marketting makes me suspicious though.
Reply #4 of 6 posted 3 MAY 19 by CybeRose
Breed Sci. 2018 Jan; 68(1): 79–87.
Published online 2018 Feb 17.
Recent advances in the research and development of blue flowers
Naonobu Noda*

"... the research group of Suntory and Florigene developed blue roses by genetic engineering (Katsumoto et al. 2007). Roses that have petals with a high flavonol content and relatively high pH—traits that are considered to be suitable for blue color development—were selected for gene introduction. Among various F3′5′H genes, the pansy F3′5′H gene was found to be effective for producing delphinidin-based anthocyanins in roses. In addition, a Torenia gene encoding anthocyanin 5-aromatic acyltransferase was introduced with pansy F3′5′H, which enabled acylation of anthocyanin with an aromatic organic acid, and the world’s first blue rose, Suntory blue rose Applause was created."

Maybe it is more impressive in person. Otherwise, I think I'd prefer to work with cultivars that are not patented inside as well as out.
Reply #5 of 6 posted 4 MAY 19 by jedmar
With all the work they did, it is still not "blue" as claimed
Reply #6 of 6 posted 17 DEC by Michael Garhart
Suntory is a MASSIVE corporation in Japan. It is plausible that this was more about proof of concept (genetic manipulation) for other parts of their industry, their stocks, and whatever else they were trying to boost at the time.
most recent 28 SEP HIDE POSTS
Initial post 28 SEP by CybeRose
The name 'Gold of Ophir' has sometimes been used for the Noisette 'Ophirie'.
most recent 26 SEP SHOW ALL
Initial post 19 OCT 07 by Unregistered Guest
I also would like to (urgently) know more about this rose! To what zone has this been successfully grown? (I am in Western Maryland, in a mountainous region with many niches ranging through Zone 6a, 6b and 5. The garden is full-sun, south-facing, protected by the house to the north ...I believe I am in the zone 6 range.) Has anyone in my zone/region successfully grown this as a tall climber? Does this rose tend to bleach out considerably with full sun, or does it retain the pink/gold coloration? Is the foliage lush and healthy or is it sparse? How long and how prolific is the bloom time, etc? I am looking for a romantic tall climber of this coloration to wrap around the columns and arch over my wrap-around porch. Ideally, I am looking for a plant that will reach 15 to 20 feet, have foliage that looks nice when the plant is not blooming and have glowing yellow and pink blooms. I am almost to the point of giving up and settling for a tall pink climber like Cecile Brunner or New Dawn that is reliable but not so exciting to me (I really like the yellow mixed in) or looking for a prolific, tall red climber. Any suggestions, comments? (suggestions on tall, prolific red climbers also welcomed!) Thanks very much, all suggestions welcomed! Cynthia
Reply #1 of 9 posted 22 JUN 08 by Margaret Furness
This rose is a hooker (leaps out and grabs passers-by). Don't plant it anywhere near your house or a path! Ditto New Dawn. It would be worth asking a local nurseryman about Crepuscule in your district.
Reply #2 of 9 posted 15 JUL 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Rosa dumalis is just like that, each curved prickle perfectly angled like a miniature sickle that will rake a bloody furrow at the slightest provocation.
Reply #3 of 9 posted 26 SEP by CybeRose
I had a similar problem with R. wichuraiana poteriifolia. Tiny little hooks. I had the plant in a pot on a wall. Somehow the slightest breeze sent the wiry canes right at me. And sometimes no breeze, I 'm sure. Mean little critter.
Rose growing is not for sissies.
Reply #4 of 9 posted 26 SEP by Robert Neil Rippetoe

Wichurana 'Thornless' has the same issues, no prickles on the stems, but prickles on the underside of the leaves are vicious!
Reply #5 of 9 posted 26 SEP by Patricia Routley
Today I have my third weekly appointment to check the dressing on a ‘Laure Davoust’ inflicted slice on my leg when I took the mower a little too close to the rose. It won’t stop me from loving roses, but it does remind me to take more care.
Reply #6 of 9 posted 26 SEP by CybeRose
Years ago, I was visiting the Heritage Rose Garden in San Jose. I stopped to sniff 'Penelope', one of my favorite Hybrid Musks, when I saw a plump hip that was just out of reach from above. I crawled under the large bush, grabbed what I wanted, then pulled back just a little too quickly. That's how I got an impressively large thorn stuck in the back of my head, just below the skull. I moved forward a bit, and much more cautiously, and got unhooked. Somehow I lost interest in hip collecting for the rest of the afternoon.
Reply #7 of 9 posted 26 SEP by Robert Neil Rippetoe
These are reasons why I've been obsessed with creating smooth roses for years and have submitted many beauties for trial. Invariably they were shot down for one reason or another. don't fare as well in cold storage for some reason but with production methods going toward own-root production this should be less of an issue.

IF the public made smoothness a priority the market would respond.

I still have a bone to pick with HMF since truly smooth roses cannot be identified here.

In my opinion, going forward, HMF should attempt to list grades of smoothness, or lack thereof.

Roses are always evolving and there is no reason whatsoever the future should include the horrors of being sliced alive in perpetuity.
Reply #9 of 9 posted 26 SEP by Lee H.
By the end of the growing season, I’ve become so insensitive to prickles, that unless one gets me in the face, I hardly notice. Recently, I found my wife fretting over our dog, who apparently was tracking bloody paw prints over the house. Turned out that I’d tangled with one of my babies, and blood was dripping down my arm, unbeknownst to me. The dog had only stepped in it.

And no, she didn’t fret over me; quite the opposite, actually ;-)
Reply #8 of 9 posted 26 SEP by Nastarana
FDYC is generally thought to be a tea or even gigantea hybrid and, alas, likely not hardy colder than one 7. Howsomever, wait another 2-4 yrs. and you might find you are in that zone, LOL.

Have you considered any of the newer Kordes climbers, among which there seem to be some quite nice yellow and goldish cultivars? If it were me, I would of course plant my two yellow climbing faves, 'Cl. Sun Flare' and 'Golden Celebration', but neither of those is pinkish. Another fave is 'Polka', for the color you want, but I don't know how well it could be trained.

If you want a single rose, Austin's 'Morning Mist' might suit. I've not grown or seen it, but it is said to grow tall, pix show a large, color changing flower. I, myself, am not a fan of 'Westerland', but it does have a large following and is not hard to source. I seem to recall that John Clemons introduced at least one climber in the colors you want. Maybe check the Heirloom website.
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